Guantanamo Voices


Not Talking About Torture

It’s strange that everyone everywhere asks the same questions about Guantanamo. With few memorable exceptions, journalists from Finland have the same questions as young Muslim girls from Birmingham and the French film crew runs through almost exactly the same list on camera as the old Liverpool socialists do around the dinner table.

There’s the War on Islam question, the American response question, the Who’s to Blame question. But the worst question, Moazzam and Chris agree, is the Torture Question. They discuss the Torture Question as the car speeds toward Leeds.

‘People want to know the gory details,” gripes Moazzam, “Some people will be as brazen as you can imagine, “So were you tortured?”‘
‘Like: pow!’ says Chris. “And then they always seem kind of frustrated. I always try to start that off with: putting people in cages is torture. Period.”
‘The U.N. conventions against torture clearly outlaw physical or psychological torture. And so people should recognize that it’s psychological torture. And even then there’s this discussion over “What is torture?” And to try to narrow it down, that it can be some sort of: This is torture, this isn’t torture. Well, why? “Well, because I’ve written down and said so, not because I’ve experienced it. Some people say, putting someone an air conditioned room isn’t torture. Torture is pulling someone fingernails out.’
‘They’ll say, “So did you torture them?”‘ continues Chris, ‘And I’m supposed to be like, “Boy howdy, did we! First we tied em up to a bed frame and then we connected that up to a couple car batteries and then we hooked that to their testicles!” That’s what they think we’re going to say up there! And it’s like, no! It’s temperature controls, these much more subtle techniques. And then they’re like, “Oh, well, that’s not as torturous as we thought it was.” And it’s like, “That’s why they make these rules, man! Because these things sound less impactful!”



Amazing Questions Part 2

Chris, Moazzam and other detainees field a dozen or so questions every night from audiences and a constant barrage of them from media. Here are the most insightful of the last week.

From the Sheffield audience, January 20th —

How do you channel and control what I imagine must be incredible feelings of anger toward the west and the world for your situation?

OMAR DEGHAYES: I don’t know, I don’t really understand. Our belief probably helped us. Because we believe in the hereafter, we believe in the destination, that if something happens to us, there must be a wisdom behind it. Though we have been treated badly, there must be some benefit. You learn patience in prison. If I speak how much I learned in prison, maybe people think Guantanamo is a good place. But we learned a lot in Guantanamo really. I said this to Chris when we first met and he couldn’t believe it but we learned a lot about ourselves, about mixing with other people, about prisoners and people’s hatred and prejudices and how we should not be the same if we were in a position of power. All this I think you learn from other people’s mistakes. And the belief that the who turns day and night is not America, but Allah.
From Aerosol Arabic, Birmingham street artist. Interview held with Chris in a random Middle Eastern restaurant on Stratford Road, January 18th —

How did you feel when you came home from Guantanamo?

Very Official Interview (with falafel)

Very Official Interview (with falafel)

CHRIS: I felt like I was losing my damn mind, I couldn’t figure out where I fit.. It wasn’t until I was hanging out with other veterans who were also screwing up their all their relationships and also couldn’t keep jobs that I thought, well, that adds a little perspective. Maybe it’s not just me, maybe it’s this whole damn thing. Maybe it’s having been over there and coming back. I challenge anybody to try it, you come back and you’re a freak show. Nobody wants to touch us with a ten foot stick. My resume says Guantanamo Bay on it now, where am I going to work. Who wants that guy? Cause right off the bat, they know, this kid’s probably got problems.

You’re going around now throwing two fingers up against your country and basically talking internationally about how crap your country is. Do you think that you’re in a way being disloyal?

CHRIS: No, because this isn’t two fingers up against my country, it’s two fingers up against the people who have sold my country out. These are two fingers up against the Bush administration and the corporate pillagers who have sold out the young people of America. I love America. I think America is a great place to grow up. I think a lot of working class values are things I’m really glad to have been imbued with. I wouldn’t have wanted to grow up anywhere but where I grew up. I wouldn’t have wanted to grow up with anybody but the people who raised me. I don’t my regret being an American. But my finger’s goin’ up at the people who are taking our ability to be proud of America away

From the Nottingham University Audience, January 19th:

Who is responsible for the abuses in Guantanamo, the low level soldiers or the high ranking officials?

CHRIS: It comes from both ends. On the blocks, there’s not an extreme level of oversight. The camp comandant and the seargant major of the camp, the highest ranking NCO and officer of the camp, have virtually nothing to do with the camp — they make all the rules, but they never go in and see it. There is a lot of abuse in our operations just day by day, that goes from something that’s procedural to something that’s excessively forceful. But then interrogators and comandants set things from their end, like they’re responsible for the frequent flier program.

MOAZZAM: The great lesson from Nuremberg is that the individual soldier cannot claim they were not liable because they were just following orders. How did abuse happen? In a place like Bagram, which is closer to the front lines, there’s more anger, there’s more energy from soldiers, there’s more liability for abuse. But there is an environment that can be created when people at the top like Donald Rumsfeld says, “I stand for eight to ten hours a day, why is standing limited for four hours for these guys.” But of course when we stand as detainees, we stand chained, with our hands above our heads. So the penny drops from the top.


From the Nottingham University audience, January 19th:

Were there many other soldiers who felt the way you did, Chris? Why did you respond differently to the situation than the other soldiers?

CHRIS: I was definitely minority status, it was like… it reminds me of when Christianity was first starting to come out and people would draw the Jesus fish on walls. It’s like a secret society. I’m an absolute pacifist, which, I know, is at odds with me being in the military but I was playing a dangerous gamble of trying to get college money and get out without being deployed… There were a couple other people who were kind of in line with we. Most of them were like, “We don’t know what these people are here for, it’s more than likely that our government’s full of shit. So the best thing we can do is just go and do our jobs and treat these people like people.” Who recognized that we couldn’t do anything to change things, that were all specialists, we were all privates, we can’t do anything that will radically change things. There were other people there who were good people, we weren’t all horrible monsters.

I don’t know what to attribute my values to. I was raised by this mouthy little Portugese guy, my grandpa, who was an absolute racist. But racism’s just never really stuck with me, I’ve always thought that was wrong. My family are hunters, I’m a vegetarian. I’ve just always been like this. Maybe I’m just some kind of weird hillbilly mutant.



The Anger of Soldiers
January 14, 2009, 8:48 pm
Filed under: conversations | Tags: , , , ,

In the car today between Bristol and Brighton, Moazzam and Chris got to talking about all the reports of soldiers returning from duty very violent people. Chris mentioned that within his unit, several of the men had been charged with violent crimes after coming home and he himself had tried to commit suicide. They agreed that soldiers have a lot of pent up rage. During his time in detention, Moazzam experienced this as a latent hostility against, it seemed, all things Muslim. An intense conversation followed:
Moazzam: All the cells [in Bagram] had different names on them.. one was called Somalia and Libya and Lebanon. And I was thinking, “What’s Somalia got to do with this? What’s Lebanon got to do with this?” And then I started to realize, these people feel that this is payback time for the Muslim world… It didn’t say Vietnam, it didn’t say Korea.  For some people, there is some pent up rage and that it’s payback time for these people.
Chris: You know, I grew up with these kids and I feel like they were this angry all the time. These kids are the same kids who beat me senseless when I was in school, who were constantly aggressive all of the time. These were the kids who even though I was a part of the military, even after I had gone through basic training and proved myself, taped me to my bed, beat the shit out of me in the night, beat me in the stairwells, beat me in the showers… In basic training I got hit in the face with a shovel in my sleep…

Moazzam: You know when you said that some of these guys were psychotic —
Chris: I mean it! I was more terrified than of anybody I’ve ever been in my entire life. Being surrounded by these guys was one of the scariest things I’ve ever experienced. I was way more terrified spending a year around them than a year around terrorists. Absolutely. I’ve been more physically abused by these people than anybody I’d ever been in my entire life. These were scary people to me.